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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: Injury Festival!

By TarquinTheDark
8/24/2019 8:48 am
Cjfred68 wrote:
This isnt about getting rid of injuries, I agree without injuries the roster management and development of depth are muted and it becomes a game of best 22 wins.

This is about owners with over 100 seasons played in MFN across all leagues noticing an increase in injuries across the board. 2 plays are sighted in this thread where in one 5 and the other 6 players are injured on the same play.

Teams have always sustained injuries with the mean being somewhere around 6. 1 to 2 was the low end with 10 being the high end extreme. Those numbers worked in this game because of the size of the roster and unavailability of a practice squad to draw from.

Recently those numbers have risen to a mean of 8, a low of 4 and a max of 20. This is data compiled over 36 seasons in 12 different leagues.


Very nice. The max numbers are clearly a cascading effect, so the fix needs to be carefully done. The average injury is 3 or 4 weeks, so I'm guessing one less injury per team every two games would do the trick. Still would be nice to have better roster and injury management.

Re: Injury Festival!

By raidergreg69
8/24/2019 9:16 am
Mcarovil wrote:
I’m in 11 leagues more or less. No real injuries to speak of in any league and never have had them. I play starters 2 Quarters a game in preseason. All fatigue settings are in between 50-69. No issues. If there is depth at a position I may drop fatigue to 45-50 but I haven’t noticed too much difference. We rock.


I do the same with fatigue no higher than 50. It's not my settings.

Re: Injury Festival!

By jdavidbakr - Site Admin
8/24/2019 9:31 am
First, play your probable players. Don't even consider them as injured. Most NFL players have some degree of injury throughout the entire season if they see any snaps at all. Injuries are a big part of football and the decision of whether to play injured players should be part of the strategy. The counterbalance to this is that I decided early on not to have any career-ending injuries, so players will always recover to 100%. The only exception to this is that a player is more highly likely to retire if they have had multiple serious injuries through their career.

Second, nothing has changed in the injury code since the day the game engine launched. The only reason injuries might have risen is because of longer sustained drives and players being on the field for longer stretches of time. If that's the case, then injury adjustment needs to be a discussion in MFN-1 to find a balance, and everyone is welcome to participate in the discussion there even if you don't have a team.

Third, this is not supposed to be an easy game. I want you to have to make hard decisions, like a real NFL GM or coach has to. This is why there are decisions regarding injuries that you need to make. You shouldn't me making binary decisions of 'this player has a flag in the corner, he must be deactivated. Oh no, I'm out of players!' I want you to evaluate whether or not you should take the chance of playing that questionable player, given where his injury is and how important the game is.

This is also why I don't want the talent pool flooded with 80+ rated players (I made the mistake of increasing talent at the large requests of the users, and it was a terrible decision that has impacted any leagues that were running during that time significantly, they are still several seasons away from recovering) - I want you to have to make difficult decisions regarding your roster. I learned from that mistake, and so the decision to decrease injuries is one that must come with a great deal of testing. This is a strategy game, not an arcade game. I hope you approach it with that mindset.

Re: Injury Festival!

By Big Poppa
8/24/2019 9:38 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
First, play your probable players. Don't even consider them as injured. Most NFL players have some degree of injury throughout the entire season if they see any snaps at all. Injuries are a big part of football and the decision of whether to play injured players should be part of the strategy. The counterbalance to this is that I decided early on not to have any career-ending injuries, so players will always recover to 100%. The only exception to this is that a player is more highly likely to retire if they have had multiple serious injuries through their career.

Second, nothing has changed in the injury code since the day the game engine launched. The only reason injuries might have risen is because of longer sustained drives and players being on the field for longer stretches of time. If that's the case, then injury adjustment needs to be a discussion in MFN-1 to find a balance, and everyone is welcome to participate in the discussion there even if you don't have a team.

Third, this is not supposed to be an easy game. I want you to have to make hard decisions, like a real NFL GM or coach has to. This is why there are decisions regarding injuries that you need to make. You shouldn't me making binary decisions of 'this player has a flag in the corner, he must be deactivated. Oh no, I'm out of players!' I want you to evaluate whether or not you should take the chance of playing that questionable player, given where his injury is and how important the game is.

This is also why I don't want the talent pool flooded with 80+ rated players (I made the mistake of increasing talent at the large requests of the users, and it was a terrible decision that has impacted any leagues that were running during that time significantly, they are still several seasons away from recovering) - I want you to have to make difficult decisions regarding your roster. I learned from that mistake, and so the decision to decrease injuries is one that must come with a great deal of testing. This is a strategy game, not an arcade game. I hope you approach it with that mindset.


Turn em DOWN

Re: Injury Festival!

By raidergreg69
8/24/2019 9:57 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
injuries might have risen


Might have risen? After everything that's been said, including CJ's injury stats, we get "injuries might have risen"?

That's insulting.

There are other insulting things in that post, but to still deny injuries HAVE risen makes me sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist.

I never said I wanted the game to be easy.

I never said I wanted zero injuries.

I have been playing this game a long time with the same settings and at least on my teams, the injuries have increased dramatically.

I'm really really tired of people basically telling me I don't know *** I'm talking about.

Re: Injury Festival!

By TarquinTheDark
8/24/2019 10:14 am
raidergreg69 wrote:
I never said I wanted the game to be easy.

I think everyone who has contributed here has carefully considered that pitfall, and we're still posting about this ...

raidergreg69 wrote:
I never said I wanted zero injuries.

Nobody has.

raidergreg69 wrote:
I have been playing this game a long time with the same settings and at least on my teams, the injuries have increased dramatically.

Eight months here. If it hadn't been for this thread, I would have thought it was bad luck on a few of my teams, or something I started doing wrong.

raidergreg69 wrote:
I'm really really tired of people basically telling me I don't know *** I'm talking about.

Greg, you DO know *** you're talking about.

We realize that no adjustment has been made to the injury setting. If the rest of the game has changed, then an adjustment should be made to account for that. #Realism
Last edited at 8/24/2019 10:28 am

Re: Injury Festival!

By Cjfred68
8/24/2019 10:15 am
I'm just asking for all those owners that have been complaining about injuries to use their voice here.

By all means, share your alternate opinion like Mcarovil. He made his arguement clearly and without trying to disrespect anyone. I personally feel similar to Mcarovil but this isnt about me.

I'm a league admin for over 100 owners and a great number of them have complained to me about the increase in injuries in the game. With that being said, I'm acting as an advocate for all of them and asking them to use their voice in this thread and be heard.

I dont have all the answers but I know if owners are getting frustrated and losing enjoyment for this game because injuries have escalated in their opinion....its not good for this game.

JDB could eventually make MFN into the most realistic football simulation game ever created but fail because his core audience (the current owners with ten or more teams) stop playing.

I'm repeating myself here but NOBODY is suggesting that injuries be turned off or removed but recent data which includes single plays where 5 or 6 players get injured at a time suggests a recent amplification of injuries across leagues.

When you have 10 injuries after the first preseason game, your team is already behind the eight ball. That leaves 50 healthy players to play preseason game 2. This results in increased playing time or snaps for those players which increases the risk for subsequent injuries. Let's say you get lucky and suffer only 2 additional injuries during the 2nd game, now you head into preseason game 3 with 48 healthy bodies.

You have to hope players get healthy enough to play by the regular season where the stakes are raised by the roster being trimmed to 53. The next time you play regular season game 1, go through your league and check every team and you will find close to half the league with at least 7 injuries with a few over that number. 7 is the magic number because that is the most you can have and still field a healthy 46. Once you pass 7, you are constantly juggling players with injuries into the active depth chart and hoping they dont get exposed to additional injuries. 10 use to be the max, I rarely saw a team with more than ten injuries but in recent seasons the max has increased significantly with specific teams I have witnessed with 13, 15 and as many as 20 injuries on the roster. This seems to be a new phenomenon because none of the veteran owners I've talked too have seen injury numbers that high before.

This rise in injuries isnt the result of bad fatigue settings because the veteran owners it is happening too have long established the proper fatigue settings and have made no outlandish adjustments to them.

Re: Injury Festival!

By Cjfred68
8/24/2019 10:25 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
First, play your probable players. Don't even consider them as injured. Most NFL players have some degree of injury throughout the entire season if they see any snaps at all. Injuries are a big part of football and the decision of whether to play injured players should be part of the strategy. The counterbalance to this is that I decided early on not to have any career-ending injuries, so players will always recover to 100%. The only exception to this is that a player is more highly likely to retire if they have had multiple serious injuries through their career.

Second, nothing has changed in the injury code since the day the game engine launched. The only reason injuries might have risen is because of longer sustained drives and players being on the field for longer stretches of time. If that's the case, then injury adjustment needs to be a discussion in MFN-1 to find a balance, and everyone is welcome to participate in the discussion there even if you don't have a team.

Third, this is not supposed to be an easy game. I want you to have to make hard decisions, like a real NFL GM or coach has to. This is why there are decisions regarding injuries that you need to make. You shouldn't me making binary decisions of 'this player has a flag in the corner, he must be deactivated. Oh no, I'm out of players!' I want you to evaluate whether or not you should take the chance of playing that questionable player, given where his injury is and how important the game is.

This is also why I don't want the talent pool flooded with 80+ rated players (I made the mistake of increasing talent at the large requests of the users, and it was a terrible decision that has impacted any leagues that were running during that time significantly, they are still several seasons away from recovering) - I want you to have to make difficult decisions regarding your roster. I learned from that mistake, and so the decision to decrease injuries is one that must come with a great deal of testing. This is a strategy game, not an arcade game. I hope you approach it with that mindset.


If that's the case, I suggest you close the thread because nothing will be done about it and everyone must deal with injuries as they currently are in the game.

Thanks for everyone who contributed and sorry nothing will be done about the issue. I tried to help and at least JDB responded so everyone was heard but there will be no changes made to injuries

Re: Injury Festival!

By TarquinTheDark
8/24/2019 10:45 am
jdavidbakr wrote:
If that's the case, then injury adjustment needs to be a discussion in MFN-1 to find a balance, and everyone is welcome to participate in the discussion there even if you don't have a team.


Thread started.

https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/forums/6/1886

Re: Injury Festival!

By Lamba
8/24/2019 12:09 pm
Cjfred68 wrote:
Nobody is misreading your posts Lamba.

Obviously. You(pl) are.

I have never once said I disagreed with the injuries being out of hand, I'm simply offering thoughts on a lasting solution instead of a bandaid that will, in my eyes, lower the quality of the game.

That has nothing to do with 3 or 34000 seasons. It has nothing to do with you being you, me being me or raidergreg being raidergreg. It's simply my suggestion on how to improve the game, instead of just adjusting something that will give another unhealthy situation.

All the other bs, you can keep to yourself. I'm doing my very best to learn this game and navigate in the chaos that is a football sim and I sincerely hope you all are too.

You all calling me a contrarian is like a group of monkeys hitting on the human for his ability to read. It's quite amusing, really.

Example:
Lamba reads post from CJfred: "Wonder what's in this post. *reads* Hmmm. [reaction -- either nothing, thumbs up or write post]." -- move on.

CJfred reads post from Lamba: "ERMAFHKINGGHERDITSTHISGUYAGAINZOMGWTF!!!" <-- Before you even read a word, you're already tailspinning for no reason at all.

PS: Give injury management tools. Keep injuries the same. Thank you.