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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Legendruthless
10/17/2022 11:54 am
setherick wrote:
jdavidbakr wrote:
I'm willing to wait for, say, a week, if you can convince me that this is the best way to handle it. What I don't want to happen is to have a week of games where people who were unaware of this as an exploit try to take advantage of it and make the next week's worth of games a wild west. I chose to keep the timeline extremely short because it seems to me that if you are taking advantage of the exploit you are kind of violating the integrity of the game overall, and you will not really be effected by it if you're gameplans are well balanced. But I'm open to hearing arguments that I'm overstating that.


I think this is a change that you just make. It's going to change game plans regardless. And if your not balancing your game plan that's on you.

From my database, getting rid of the play brings back passing over night.


This is also a valid point. If the change is going to be made, just do it and everyone can start to move towards their new gameplans when they have time.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Legendruthless
10/17/2022 12:00 pm
Here is the bug box forum:

https://norig.myfootballnow.com/community/6/7329?page=1#44241

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By setherick
10/17/2022 2:27 pm
setherick wrote:
I'll be updating my database to show passing plays against all other defenses in response to this change.


If you want to see what good passing teams look like against other defense than the FZ, here it is: https://nfl.myfootballnow.com/community/3/7347?page=1&x=SY0ORFh7yV#44335

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By CrazySexyBeast
10/17/2022 2:30 pm
lots of "I've been abusing the **** out of both these plays blah blah dont do or delay or i'll lose!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's what you get for abusing the plays, yo.

Just rip the **** bandaid off and stop the bug.

Thx JDB, appreciate the action taken :)
Gonna go toss in some random plays to fill my d/o playbooks and then remove them post patch.
Super simple and less than 5 minutes of my time.
Easy fix to a nasty bug.
CSB

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Blondie1977
10/17/2022 2:31 pm
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
lots of "I've been abusing the **** out of both these plays blah blah dont do or delay or i'll lose!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's what you get for abusing the plays, yo.

Just rip the **** bandaid off and stop the bug.

Thx JDB, appreciate the action taken :)
Gonna go toss in some random plays to fill my d/o playbooks and then remove them post patch.
Super simple and less than 5 minutes of my time.
Easy fix to a nasty bug.
CSB


I agree. Better now than drawing it out. I say this as someone who stands to lose some games. I’d rather have my passing offense back.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Legendruthless
10/17/2022 2:36 pm
Blondie1977 wrote:
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
lots of "I've been abusing the **** out of both these plays blah blah dont do or delay or i'll lose!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's what you get for abusing the plays, yo.

Just rip the **** bandaid off and stop the bug.

Thx JDB, appreciate the action taken :)
Gonna go toss in some random plays to fill my d/o playbooks and then remove them post patch.
Super simple and less than 5 minutes of my time.
Easy fix to a nasty bug.
CSB


I agree. Better now than drawing it out. I say this as someone who stands to lose some games. I’d rather have my passing offense back.


It'll be back temporarily until they spam another zone play over and over again and your passing will become useless again.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Legendruthless
10/17/2022 2:38 pm
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
lots of "I've been abusing the **** out of both these plays blah blah dont do or delay or i'll lose!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's what you get for abusing the plays, yo.

Just rip the **** bandaid off and stop the bug.

Thx JDB, appreciate the action taken :)
Gonna go toss in some random plays to fill my d/o playbooks and then remove them post patch.
Super simple and less than 5 minutes of my time.
Easy fix to a nasty bug.
CSB


It still won't solve the underlying problem. All everyone is going to do is change flat zone for another zone play. Sure you'll be more successful for maybe a season. But back to where we were.

I am ok with removing FZ for now as most teams have built up the familiarity to dominate, this will sort of be a reset for a season until other plays are spammed.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By setherick
10/17/2022 2:43 pm
Legendruthless wrote:
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
lots of "I've been abusing the **** out of both these plays blah blah dont do or delay or i'll lose!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's what you get for abusing the plays, yo.

Just rip the **** bandaid off and stop the bug.

Thx JDB, appreciate the action taken :)
Gonna go toss in some random plays to fill my d/o playbooks and then remove them post patch.
Super simple and less than 5 minutes of my time.
Easy fix to a nasty bug.
CSB


It still won't solve the underlying problem. All everyone is going to do is change flat zone for another zone play. Sure you'll be more successful for maybe a season. But back to where we were.

I am ok with removing FZ for now as most teams have built up the familiarity to dominate, this will sort of be a reset for a season until other plays are spammed.


This isn't true. Statistically the other zone plays are ineffective against most runs or passes. The FZ was effective because it put multiple players in the passing lanes of the passing plays that work. Most passing plays don't work against any man defense.

The biggest problem with the testing of the game engine is that it uses zone and man equally. So the automated test suite shows the passing game as balanced and realistic when really no one runs zone in competitive leagues.
Last edited at 10/17/2022 2:47 pm

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Bruno77
10/17/2022 2:55 pm
setherick wrote:
Legendruthless wrote:
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
lots of "I've been abusing the **** out of both these plays blah blah dont do or delay or i'll lose!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's what you get for abusing the plays, yo.

Just rip the **** bandaid off and stop the bug.

Thx JDB, appreciate the action taken :)
Gonna go toss in some random plays to fill my d/o playbooks and then remove them post patch.
Super simple and less than 5 minutes of my time.
Easy fix to a nasty bug.
CSB


It still won't solve the underlying problem. All everyone is going to do is change flat zone for another zone play. Sure you'll be more successful for maybe a season. But back to where we were.

I am ok with removing FZ for now as most teams have built up the familiarity to dominate, this will sort of be a reset for a season until other plays are spammed.


This isn't true. Statistically the other zone plays are ineffective against most runs or passes. The FZ was effective because it put multiple players in the passing lanes of the passing plays that work. Most passing plays don't work against any man defense.

The biggest problem with the testing of the game engine is that it uses zone and man equally. So the automated test suite shows the passing game as balanced and realistic when really no one runs zone in competitive leagues.


Replace the word zone with just non-blitzing plays (so I am thinking for example of 3-4 Man Cover 1, 4-3 Man Under 1, 46 Heavy 2 Deep Man Under). Is this still the case?

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Legendruthless
10/17/2022 2:57 pm
setherick wrote:
Legendruthless wrote:
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
lots of "I've been abusing the **** out of both these plays blah blah dont do or delay or i'll lose!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's what you get for abusing the plays, yo.

Just rip the **** bandaid off and stop the bug.

Thx JDB, appreciate the action taken :)
Gonna go toss in some random plays to fill my d/o playbooks and then remove them post patch.
Super simple and less than 5 minutes of my time.
Easy fix to a nasty bug.
CSB


It still won't solve the underlying problem. All everyone is going to do is change flat zone for another zone play. Sure you'll be more successful for maybe a season. But back to where we were.

I am ok with removing FZ for now as most teams have built up the familiarity to dominate, this will sort of be a reset for a season until other plays are spammed.


This isn't true. Statistically the other zone plays are ineffective against most runs or passes. The FZ was effective because it put multiple players in the passing lanes of the passing plays that work. Most passing plays don't work against any man defense.

The biggest problem with the testing of the game engine is that it uses zone and man equally. So the automated test suite shows the passing game as balanced and realistic when really no one runs zone in competitive leagues.


It is true to an extent. While the FZ may be the best of them I have seen others work just as well. I mentioned 3-4 Normal Man Cover 1. I have played against this play and my running game was stuffed. The person was pass keying as well. -2 yards often against a play that should have been successful against it. But the offensive play familiarity was negative.

I don't think people are going to get what they want out of this. Maybe at first. To truly resolve this we need overuse on all plays.