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Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By jnormaniv
12/25/2015 11:05 am
I think it should be much harder for defensive tackles and de to get sacks... Theres players in my custom league I in that have 50+ sacks... that should NEVER happen. Also returns should be much harder as well as there are players who have 15+ TD returns..

Anyone else agree? The stats need to more closely reflects that of real professional football

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By WarEagle
12/25/2015 4:45 pm
I agree there are too many sacks.
I think this is mainly due to (a) the QB very often decides to just run parallel to the LOS until he gets sacked, and (b), the OL pass blocking is very poor even for players with high pass blocking ratings.

I don't think the returns need much adjusting (if any). I haven't given up a PR or KR TD in many, many games (although I have returned a bunch of punts for TD).

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By jnormaniv
12/25/2015 7:57 pm
WarEagle wrote:
I agree there are too many sacks.
I think this is mainly due to (a) the QB very often decides to just run parallel to the LOS until he gets sacked, and (b), the OL pass blocking is very poor even for players with high pass blocking ratings.

I don't think the returns need much adjusting (if any). I haven't given up a PR or KR TD in many, many games (although I have returned a bunch of punts for TD).


When has a kicker ever return 16 punt returns in a season?

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By jnormaniv
12/25/2015 7:58 pm
This needs to be fixed asap top of the to do list IMO

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By WarEagle
12/25/2015 8:32 pm
If you don't pay much attention to special teams, or play scrubs or players who are slow and can't tackle, you're going to have a hard time covering kicks.

Basically, if your gunners (for example) are not rated highly at that position, you'll struggle, just like a real team would do.

There are many, many other things that need to be addressed before this is changed AGAIN (in my opinion).

There are a bunch of teams in MFN who don't give up many (if any) return TDs, and there are those who give up a bunch. I've proven to myself that it's not random.

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By Chipped
12/25/2015 9:50 pm
I agree with WarEagle; depth chart plays a bigger role in special teams failures than code/algorithms. I think it has something to do with the default special teams position ratings settings. I checked those on a whim a couple days ago and saw that skills such as tackling, pass rush, and pass blocking are heavily weighted in the rating.

Speed is only a very small consideration (e.g. 100 weight for pass rush and only 20 for speed). I think that may play a huge role in those special teams breakdowns. If you autoset the depth chart with the default ratings you'll end up with defensive tackles and offensive linemen on special teams (if a returner gets by them it's over; they won't catch up); a simple fix could be to change those ratings and autoset again.

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By Chipped
12/25/2015 9:58 pm
Regarding the sacks issue, the number of sacks definitely is unrealistic, but if those are reduced then we may get overpowered passing attacks and video game numbers there.

For example in one league my QB (http://cust21.myfootballnow.com/player/494) was sacked 61 times for 433 yards... and has thrown for 4029 yards (9.30 yds/att) and 38 TDs to only 14 picks. Through 15 games he has a 109.37 rating despite those sacks. Imagine how inflated those numbers would be without sacks or any kind of pressure.

Simply reducing the powers of the pass rush or improving the ability of the QB to avoid the pass rush would not be ideal solutions and may cause a drastic overcorrection in the other direction. Additionally it's definitely possible to win and have good QB performance even with these ridiculous sack numbers.

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By Kboum
12/25/2015 11:46 pm
I think the problem is more that D-Line players of 60 overall can get LOTS of sacks vs O-Line players of 80+ overall.

Like you said maybe with less pressure/sacks we would have QB throwing for 6000 yards which isnt better imo. If we aim reality, sack leaders should be around 20 sacks and passing leaders around 105-115 rating and 30-40 TDs, 4500-5000 yards

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By Kboum
12/26/2015 12:03 am
and when I say those numbers, I mean only a handful of players get there every season. Last year only 2 player got 20+ sacks.... only 1 or 2 QB got 110+ rating. only 1-2 QB got 35+ TD passes

and we're talking about the elite. not some 60 overall back up. I don't see Joe Thomas or the best OT giving up 3-4 sacks a game to a back up.

Re: Kick Returns/Punt Returns/Sacks

By fumblestruck
12/26/2015 6:11 am
I agree with the OP that these things tend to stick out. Well except for kick returns, I don't recall seeing a kick return for a TD as long as I can remember - which I am fine with because I think kick return TD's are rare and I'd rather not see them explode and become unrealistic.

Which I think is a stark contrast to the punt return scenario. That is unrealistic to have so many of them and it is easy to get them if you have the right type of player as the return man. I know there are power users who say that its not a problem because they know the secret to the fire swamp but that is a dangerous approach to a game that is still growing. You have to consider that new players are going to see that and get frustrated that they lose games by some daft punt return on too many occasions and they won't take time to complain about it on the forum, they will just quit the game. These are not annoying plays that don't matter a great deal in the end, these are game changing plays which ultimately hurt the game. Personally I'd rather punt return TDs be non-existent than how they are now.

Sacks and Safeties are too high but those are more annoying than anything in my opinion. You also have the silly passes that get knocked down too often at the line of scrimmage by the D-line mosh pit. But as noted above it is a little dangerous to simply fix those issues because then the passing game would likely be way overpowered.

*Edit - since stats are sometimes helpful in making a case...not all punt returns are TD's but even the yardage gained is out of whack. Currently in the NFL, the best punt returner is Darren Sproles who has 2 TD's on 36 attempts and is averaging 12 yards per return. Average punt returners have 0 TD's and are under 10 yards per return.

Contrast that with some of the leagues I am in:

League 22 (week 16 currently)
My player is top returner who is averaging 30 yards per return. TD's are not crazy stupid with the most of 8 TD's on the season. Every single return man is averaging 20 yards per return. Almost everyone has at least 1 PR TD.

Fake Pigskin (5 weeks in the books)
Top return man already has 7 TD's and averages 36 yards per return. I mean some punts don't even go that far...might as well just go for it on 4th down(?) Average returns are again 20 yards or better with the bottom of the league averaging 17 yards per return.

League 32 (playoffs)
Top return man is averaging 33 yards and has 18 TD's. Everyone appears to be averaging 20 or more yards per return.

League 47 (new league - 8 weeks in)
Top return man is at 28 yards per return. Most TD's is 4. League average must be 20 or better but we do have the bottom of the league getting 15 which still is too high.

League 48 (new league - 7 weeks in)
Similar to 47, somewhat muted numbers although one player has 2 TD's in 8 attempts. 3 TD's is the current high total and the best consistently used returner is averaging 26 yards. I'd say league average is similar to league 47 where its a case of the haves and the have nots for returnmen. You either get about 25 yards or you are in the upper teens for return yards.

League 6 (preseason - so last season stats)
Top returnman has 18 TD's and averages 36 yards per return. League average is over 20.

League 7 (preseason - last season's stats)
Top returner averages 30 yards, most TD's is 9. average return is over 20.

League 14 (preseason - last season's numbers)
Top returner averages 27 yards and has 6 TD's. League average is around 20 but notice that there are several in the upper teens.

I was curious so I also took a quick peek at net punting averages - while I did not look at all leagues I am in like I did above for return stats, I did look at the NFL numbers and the best punter for net yardage is Baltimore's dude with 44.0 net average. The worst net average is the dude from Arizona with 36.1. In league 32, it appears to be off by 10 yards as compared to the NFL. The leader in LG32 has 36.7 which would be about last in the NFL and the worst punter in LG32 is about 25 yards. I was curious as to whether some of the silly bounces that happen to pin you inside the 5 yard line would even things out, but it appears even those fortunate rolls do not help out the net averages. Not that anyone really cares about punter stat porn.
Last edited at 12/26/2015 7:03 am