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Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick
1/21/2022 7:06 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
setherick wrote:
You missed the point. The rb isn't supposed to block on the play at all.

Call this defensive exploit 1: blitz all plays that have the running back run a route to shut down running back passes.


Unless it was just his low intelligence meant he got his assignment wrong?


I have seen it with this guy in the past, but didn't bother to track it: https://bigdata.myfootballnow.com/player/525

I had him at RB last year, but was confused why he got so few receptions. I noticed in a few games he'd stay in to block, but didn't put it together until this season when I started seeing all RBs stay in to block on blitzes. So INT doesn't appear to be the factor.

I mean good idea, but that's not usually how the game algorithms work. They are usually all or nothing, and often buggy. In terms of problematic bugs, this is as bad as CB2s "falling down" against slant passes in 4.5

I haven't bothered to check, but I bet this is why the Long Passes are so bad. There are none that go to the RB anymore because the RB stays in to block.
Last edited at 1/21/2022 7:08 pm

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick
1/22/2022 9:34 am
More notes on this untested garbage chip block. Skimming other sets, and it seems if there are two RBs in the backfield only one stays in to block and only stays into block if the play is designated a "blitz" on the defensive card.

Clip: https://bigdata.myfootballnow.com/watch/395#71217
Offensive Play: 203 Quick Outs
Defensive Play: Crash Right

The RB is supposed to run a wheel left and stays to block. The FB runs his route.

Clip: https://bigdata.myfootballnow.com/watch/395#71280
Offensive Play: 203 Quick Outs
Defensive Play: 3-4 Cover 1 <-- This play isn't called a blitz, but the SLB blitzes. It's been a dirty secret from getting around overuse since overuse was released.

The RB ignores the blitzing LB and runs his route like normal.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By CrazySexyBeast
1/22/2022 8:01 pm
Quick throwback to a couple pgs ago:
jabillups85 wrote:
10 sack game for the Vikings Jim Marshall! https://bigdata.myfootballnow.com/box/372

Mcbolt55 wrote:
All good points, but u r missing the main part about how extreme a game like that should be…it simply shouldn’t happen, at all…ever


RL NFL Tennessee 2022 Divisional round:
Hold my beer...


"Tied" the record noted. Need more beer.

...and now back to our previously scheduled discussion as scheduled.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By TheAdmiral
1/22/2022 8:04 pm
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
Quick throwback to a couple pgs ago:
jabillups85 wrote:
10 sack game for the Vikings Jim Marshall! https://bigdata.myfootballnow.com/box/372

Mcbolt55 wrote:
All good points, but u r missing the main part about how extreme a game like that should be…it simply shouldn’t happen, at all…ever


RL NFL Tennessee 2022 Divisional round:
Hold my beer...


"Tied" the record noted. Need more beer.

...and now back to our previously scheduled discussion as scheduled.



Hmmm, playoff record

Didn't Derrick Thomas get 7 or 8 in a single game against Dave Krieg led Seahawks.

Both the Seahawks and Bengals (tonight) won those games!

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By CrazySexyBeast
1/22/2022 8:08 pm
7. Norman Willey supposedly had a 17 sack game in '52.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By TheAdmiral
1/22/2022 8:09 pm
CrazySexyBeast wrote:
7. Norman Willey supposedly had a 17 sack game in '52.


Work still needed for JDB then ;0) (just joking)

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Mcbolt55
1/22/2022 9:31 pm
Derrick Thomas had the 7 sack game, which still stands as the official single game record for an individual player. But that was back in the early 90’s, I thought we wanted this game to stop simulating “old school” football and be more like the wide open passing game that exists today? 10 sacks by an entire team is certainly possible and has happened when the right mismatches exist, but not by a single player since the stat became traceable (which definitely goes old school). Way to set the game back 70 years then, even before poor Jim ran the wrong way.

The way 4.6 plays, it’s commonplace to have a 5 sack player week in and week out, practically disappointing if your starting DE doesn’t get 2 or 3. I just had a true rookie record a 20 sack season in the beast mode league (and he missed a game or two). The league average should be about 3 sacks a game, for the entire team, not just one position.
Last edited at 1/23/2022 4:37 am

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By raidergreg69
1/23/2022 4:49 am
I don't know what "IT" is, but Joe Burrow has "IT".

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By TheAdmiral
1/23/2022 6:08 am
@McBolt the first few seasons (in particular the opening season) are going to produce wild stats (outside of passing) due to a few factors.

1. Wild mismatches - eg a team drafts a stud at DE his opponent doesn't draft OT until round twenty

2. People are still adjusting to life in 4.6 - if you can't block, you can't win

3. Free agency doesn't have any real effect on the quality of a team until season 4 or 5 and beyond. Especially if playing in a full league where owners renew/extend contracts (without using the renegotiation 'wizard'/dunce, which just guarantees cap **** and three seasons playing catch-up)


The top 'sackmaster' in Beast Mode had 26 (five more than next best) that's not beyond the realms of possibility in real life. Those teams getting a QB hospitalised on a weekly basis need to improve their OL's and get protection.

Look around the best half dozen teams in all leagues and they won't be giving up more than 2 or 3 sacks per game , whereas those teams in the bottom half dozen (in all leagues) will be giving up 6+ sacks per game.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Mcbolt55
1/23/2022 6:22 am
I’ll take the first season of beast mode with a grain of salt, as I’m also in your league of legends and it has much more established linemen. 30 players in beast mode had 12 sacks or more, only 13 did that in legends. The real nfl had 11 get there. I’m not sure about the version of Jim Marshall that started this discussion, but it stands to reason that the pass rush isn’t the main problem with 4.6 (it might need tweaked tho). It’s the inability to do any real downfield passing that is a step in the wrong direction, and there are multiple reasons for why that doesn’t work realistically.